Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

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FieldMarshall Ober
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Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:01 pm

While our friends on the Forumini work on their card deck I thought it might be fun to look at some medium ground attack aircraft as not to step on their toes while they research land units. They have stated they are not doing planes or universal fortifications. I'm not saying we should suspend land card making but mabie tone it down a bit so we don't undermine anything they are doing by duplicating it here.

We have seen Locos HS129 model posted here in recent times which I think will be going to Entek. Dano had more than one so there potential for more members to be fielding them. I think they are the coolest GA (ground Attack) aircraft in the war and want one someday to play in the game. So mabie we could do some resaerch and try to stat one with the Pak40 ATG?

Having said I like the HS129 I must admit I also really like the Commonwealth Mosquito bomber/fighter. I was thinking mabie these are close enough to stat both out to play AAM. After all for good fair gameplay if we give the Germans an medium GA plane we should also do it for the allies.

I'm not 100% if the USA had an aircraft that we could fit into this niche also. Mabie members with some knowlege could look around to see if the US could get one too. Again I'm not sure if japan had a medium GA plane, mabie members could provide some input here also.

These could give us the option of heavier tank destroyers with some different stats from standard fighter planes we have now. Something a step up from the Typhoon as far TD abilities.

Is anyone interested in working with me on this project or is it a bit too far outside the Beer and Petzels flavor of the game? My thoughts were if these work in FoW they might work in AAM also.

Honest opinions please?

HS129 w/ 75mm ATG
hs129-5.jpg
Mosquito w/ rockets
Mosquito Bomber.jpg
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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Re: Mosquito and HS129 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by Entek » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:21 pm

For the USA either the B-25 (might be a bit large, but fits the bill) or A-26/A-20 come to mind. I know they are not medium ground attack, but the P-47D, P-38, and A-36 Apache come to mind.

A-26
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B-25 Image
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Re: Mosquito and HS129 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by curtm1911 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:31 pm

As for the USA fielding a Medium/Heavy Ground Attack Plane, this info comes from the Military Channel/Great Planes & my own library. The USA had B-25's fitted with a 75MM cannon in them. The program Great Planes shows one of these planes attacking a ship for their demo footage. The pilots who flew these planes stated that when firing the cannon, they could feel the plane slow in the air from the recoil.

I think we could stat this aircraft easily into the game. Also, also using the B-25 as the base aircraft, perhaps create a version or two using the massed .50 cals/20MM cannon in the nose since both these types were built & used quite extensively. B-25's were built later in the war for Ground Attack using up to 8 .50 cals or 20MM cannons in a nose assembly & two to a side additional .50 cals for a total of twelve forward firing machine guns or combination of MG/Cannons. I hope this info is of some assistance in this endeavor.

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Re: Mosquito and HS129 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by Ace of Aces » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:06 pm

I think its a great idea. Adding any additional dimension to air phase would be a solid addition IMO. There isn't a lot of existing AAM details to pour over so the Ground Attack units will be a little easier to a base line for, possibly a little harder to balance with existing units because of the lack of precedence.

Would also open up some additional scenario options as well.
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Re: Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:11 pm

Thanks Entek and Curt. I knew the US would have something that would fit the bill. I change the title to fit your research.

Anyone know if the Japanese had anything like these?
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
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Re: Mosquito and HS129 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:22 pm

Ace of Aces wrote:I think its a great idea. Adding any additional dimension to air phase would be a solid addition IMO. There isn't a lot of existing AAM details to pour over so the Ground Attack units will be a little easier to a base line for, possibly a little harder to balance with existing units because of the lack of precedence.

Would also open up some additional scenario options as well.
Yea, I suppose there should be a starting point at existing Tank killers like the Typhoon and go from there. I think they would all be unique in some way because the Mosquito was used mostly with bombs against ground targets and the HS129 would use the Pak and it seems like the B-25 could go with MGs and cannons or a 75mm. They would all make interesting additions if we can get them statted without breaking anything else.

There stats could be ballanced by modifing speed bonuses (Mosquito) and possibly an inaccurate -1 with the air 75mm's and with varing armor ratings. The Mosquito was as fast as a Spitfire but was made from plywood so its defence would be low. However it could be made up for by adding a 'Speed Boost" SA like the Dorner. I'm thinking its doable with some play testing and open minds.

Anyone else have any comments or suggestions?
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
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Re: Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by Entek » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:22 pm

I think the closest thing the Japanese would have is the Ki-45 "Nick." It's more of a twin engine fighter like the Bf-110, so there might be something closer, but without doing some research it's what I can think of off the top of my head. I'll do some research now. ;)

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Re: Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:24 pm

Entek wrote:I think the closest thing the Japanese would have is the Ki-45 "Nick." It's more of a twin engine fighter like the Bf-110, so there might be something closer, but without doing some research it's what I can think of off the top of my head. I'll do some research now. ;)

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Cool! Let us know what you find. :D

have you thought about stats for your HS129 yet?
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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Re: Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by Entek » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:36 pm

I can't seem to find anything for the Japanese, the closest thing for the Russians would be the Il-10, but we have that already.

As far as stats for the HS129, since it basically had a Panzer IV gun mounted on it the AV should be somewhere along those lines. Maybe a little higher to represent attacking the Top armor of the vehicles. After brief reading on Wiki, it seems that it was heavily armored against small arms fire so it should probably have Superior Armor 2 like the Stumrovik, but since it's engines were crap it should probably should have the SA Slow like the Stuka giving planes a +1 when attacking it.

Something like this, Speed: A Def: 4/4, AV: 17/14/12 AI: 7/5/- SA's: Aircraft, Superior Armor 2, Slow Cost: 24? (just basing this off the Sturm)
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Re: Mosquito, HS129 & B-25 Ground Attack aircraft cards

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Entek wrote:I can't seem to find anything for the Japanese, the closest thing for the Russians would be the Il-10, but we have that already.

As far as stats for the HS129, since it basically had a Panzer IV gun mounted on it the AV should be somewhere along those lines. Maybe a little higher to represent attacking the Top armor of the vehicles. After brief reading on Wiki, it seems that it was heavily armored against small arms fire so it should probably have Superior Armor 2 like the Stumrovik, but since it's engines were crap it should probably should have the SA Slow like the Stuka giving planes a +1 when attacking it.

Something like this, Speed: A Def: 4/4, AV: 17/14/12 AI: 7/5/- SA's: Aircraft, Superior Armor 2, Slow Cost: 24? (just basing this off the Sturm)
It looks like a good starting place! What do you think of accuracy of firing a 75mm from an aircraft? From what ive read they weren't that accurate. Whats you opinion of how to buffer this; lower the AT stats or add an inaccurate -1 SA or some other modifier? Thoughts?
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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