Playing AAM in winter

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DenisCourcy
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by DenisCourcy » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:26 pm

I updated that article and made ​​available a link to the cards in English.
Please use google translation on the up right combo to translate the article to english.
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Click on the image to access my blog.
(Written in Portuguese for Brazilians who enjoy this game.
Has automatic translation by google translator for three languages. English, French and Spanish.)

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Pletch
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by Pletch » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:28 pm

We tried some "winterizing" rules for AAM a while ago. I don't remember what all we tried I do remember a couple ideas coming up:

Lack of Visibility in a storm reduce all attacks to maximum of medium range

Deep Snow - Non-road terrain impassible to wheeled vehicles, Tracked vehicles were at double cost to move off road, off road infantry could only move in the assault phase

Frozen Engines - all German tanks of 1941 or earlier must roll a 5+, if it fails the tank is completely immobile for the entire game (this was for an Eastern Front 1941-42 winter scenario, as I recall we never actually used it because it was so prohibitive)

I like some of stuff that's been mentioned so far: danger of sliding on a slope, no high gear or road bonus, and frozen streams, marshes and ponds. I don't think we ever took any of that into account.
I like the idea of some spring thaw rules too. I've read mud was always a huge problem on the Eastern Front especially.
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dano903
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by dano903 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:21 am

someone had a house rule for frozen rivers...something like this..

if a tank was to cross a frozen river, on a roll of 5 or 6, the tank broke the ice layer and is damaged and can't move. which makes some sense in real life. just a thought

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FieldMarshall Ober
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Tue May 03, 2011 12:04 am

This is quite interesting. Between Denis Courcys work and the suggestions there is almost enough ideas to develope some kind of Winter Rules set.

So far:

~Maybe streams/swamps could be crossed by soldiers without a movemnet roll (frozen)

~Maybe camo for Vehiles (soldiers?) is reduced in woods (no leaves)?

~What about snow and drifting snow and what effect could it have in both wheeled and tracked vehicles? Loss of high gear would be one option?

~I think tracked vehicles would have not much problems even with deep snow (they would sing, but be able to move) slopes might pose problems if the snow is "sliding". Maybe no road bonus and no High gear and require a movement roll on hills without roads?

~Lack of Visibility in a storm reduce all attacks to maximum of medium range

~Deep Snow - Non-road terrain impassible to wheeled vehicles, Tracked vehicles were at double cost to move off road, off road infantry could only move in the assault phase

~Frozen Engines - all German tanks of 1941 or earlier must roll a 5+, if it fails the tank is completely immobile for the entire game (this was for an Eastern Front 1941-42 winter scenario, as I recall we never actually used it because it was so prohibitive)

~Denis Courcys Card
LOS - Half value of the period of day (referencing back to period of day cards). Limited to 3 hexes.
Vehicles speed - card speed value (-1). No high gear.
Artillery - (-1) to relocate SA speed.
Soldiers - Speed from 1 to 0 and get relocate=1
Aircraft - Unable to fly
Paras - Unable to jump.

~I also went looking for a WotC Snowdrift Hex from the Combat-zone promo sets. I found the box of hexes but no snowdrift hex. I know I have it but just cannot lay my hands on it. Its a 2 inch hex. Does anybody have it, as on the back are official snow rules????

If we use Denis`s format of: LOS and movement and add terrain effects with snow, would everything get covered?

Thoughts or comments now that all the ideas are on the same page?
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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FieldMarshall Ober
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Tue May 03, 2011 10:24 pm

Denis Courcy found this 49 page WWII report on fighting on the Eastern Front in winter. He sent it to me and I put it in a dropbox where members should be able to access it. I skimmed it and it is really interesting and worth a read.

Access the file here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28096553/EFFECT ... OMBAT.docx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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DenisCourcy
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by DenisCourcy » Wed May 04, 2011 5:11 pm

FieldMarshall wrote:This is quite interesting. Between Denis Courcys work and the suggestions there is almost enough ideas to develope some kind of Winter Rules set.

So far:
~Maybe streams/swamps could be crossed by soldiers without a movemnet roll (frozen)
Try: Ice Thickness Test For the first time a soldier of your army want to cross a pond, or swamp or stream or large river, make a test of ice thickness test. If 4+ then all soldiers can pass that pond, swamp, stream or large river, without moviment roll (frozen) otherwise soldiers can not pass ponds, swamps or large rivers and will have to make moviment roll to cross streams.
Broken Ice: If Artillery hit 4 success on frozen water (ponds, swamps or large rivers), then the ice is broken and the terrain in that hex, becomes impassible for the rest of the game. (all units in that hex are destroyed)
Cold: Soldiers roll -1 dice at the first shot.
Frozen Guns Test: Each unit must rol a dice before 1st shot. On 3 or less, the shot was not done and the test must be performed again on the next turn (gun jammed). Otherwise uniit is free to shot
~Frozen Engines - all German tanks of 1941 or earlier must roll a 5+, if it fails the tank is completely immobile for the entire game (this was for an Eastern Front 1941-42 winter scenario, as I recall we never actually used it because it was so prohibitive)
Maybe we should do like "Frozen Guns Test"
Try: Frozen Engine Test: Each vehicle must rol a dice before 1st movement. On 3 or less, the engine was not started and the test must be performed again on the next turn . Otherwise uniit is free to move
~What about snow and drifting snow and what effect could it have in both wheeled and tracked vehicles? Loss of high gear would be one option?
~I think tracked vehicles would have not much problems even with deep snow (they would sing, but be able to move) slopes might pose problems if the snow is "sliding". Maybe no road bonus and no High gear and require a movement roll on hills without roads?
Snow Storm Card - Vehicles speed - card speed value (-1). No high gear.
~Lack of Visibility in a storm reduce all attacks to maximum of medium range
Snow Storm Card - LOS - Half value of the period of day (referencing back to period of day cards). Limited to 3 hexes.
~Deep Snow - Non-road terrain impassible to wheeled vehicles, Tracked vehicles were at double cost to move off road, off road infantry could only move in the assault phase
I like it
~Denis Courcys Card
LOS - Half value of the period of day (referencing back to period of day cards). Limited to 3 hexes.
Vehicles speed - card speed value (-1). No high gear.
Artillery - (-1) to relocate SA speed.
Soldiers - Speed from 1 to 0 and get relocate=1
Aircraft - Unable to fly
Paras - Unable to jump.
I created this card for Snow Storm.
In clear sky, aircrafts and paratroopers do not have penalty
~I also went looking for a WotC Snowdrift Hex from the Combat-zone promo sets. I found the box of hexes but no snowdrift hex. I know I have it but just cannot lay my hands on it. Its a 2 inch hex. Does anybody have it, as on the back are official snow rules????
I publish 4 winter's maps on my bloghttp://axis-e-allies.blogspot.com/search/label/Mapas. I do not know official snow rules.
If we use Denis`s format of: LOS and movement and add terrain effects with snow, would everything get covered?
No. You can have clear sky and this card is only for snow storm.
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Click on the image to access my blog.
(Written in Portuguese for Brazilians who enjoy this game.
Has automatic translation by google translator for three languages. English, French and Spanish.)

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FieldMarshall Ober
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri May 13, 2011 11:26 am

I think I have some time this week-end to put together some winter rules based on our posted ideas and new information we posted here. I think it is easier if we start with a basic ruleset and modify it to suit everyones flavor rather than try to build from scratch. We have Denis Courcys cards also to use from the start.

If anyone has anymore input or information to add post it up and I will consider it all when working on a rules draft. Feel free to post new ideas and concepts also.
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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bartok
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by bartok » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:30 am

FieldMarshall Ober wrote:
Tue May 03, 2011 12:04 am

~I also went looking for a WotC Snowdrift Hex from the Combat-zone promo sets. I found the box of hexes but no snowdrift hex. I know I have it but just cannot lay my hands on it. Its a 2 inch hex. Does anybody have it, as on the back are official snow rules????
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Be careful with Feldgendarmerie¡¡¡¡¡¡

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FieldMarshall Ober
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Re: Playing AAM in winter

Unread post by FieldMarshall Ober » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:42 am

Thanks a million
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %*$# through a goose."
~Gen. G.S. Patton

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